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Peter Costello and Noel Pearson in Cairns
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The Nation's Treasurer visits Cape York
It's always good to see the nation's politicians taking an interest in Indigenous affairs. Treasurer Peter Costello's visit to Cape York has received wide coverage. When figures like Costello pay attention, it is useful for everyone.
Welfare revamp for aborigines
Author: Sophie Morris
Date: 22/07/2005
Publication: The Financial Review
Section: News
Treasurer Peter Costello is considering a radical overhaul of indigenous welfare that could see payments stripped from parents who neglect their children, and redirected to another responsible adult.
Aboriginal leader Noel Pearson outlined the controversial proposals to Mr Costello during a 2 1/2-hour meeting in Cairns yesterday, after which the Treasurer emerged praising Mr Pearson's ideas.
He conceded the plan to dock welfare payments for parents who were not using them to care for their children "sounds tough", but said such an approach might be needed.
"It's worth discussing if the community wants it. If the community believes it's going to be helpful, you have got to be open-minded to it," Mr Costello said in an interview with The Australian Financial Review.
"We have got to learn from our mistakes here. One of the mistakes of the past has been that welfare can be misused and you've got to think up ways of stopping that."
Mr Pearson, from the Cape York Institute for Policy and Leadership, said his plan was not to reduce the overall payments to a community but to target welfare where it was needed and where it would not be squandered.
Under the plan, a parent considered by the community to be gambling away payments could lose access to their family's pensions.
"We need a much more effective way of reallocating responsibility for that income away from deadbeats to people who are actually taking responsibility," Mr Pearson said.
"In too many circumstances the grandmothers are taking that responsibility but they are paying for it out of their pensions."
He will take Mr Costello to the remote communities of Coen and Aurukun today in an attempt to secure his support in federal cabinet for the fundamental change that would be needed to directly link pensions to the quality of parenting.
His proposal goes further than conditions contained in the shared responsibility agreements that the federal government has been negotiating with indigenous communities.
KEY POINTS
Welfare payments for aborigines may be directly linked to the quality of parenting.
A parent gambling the payments could lose access to the family's pensions.
Lateline
Australian Broadcasting Corporation
TV PROGRAM TRANSCRIPT
LOCATION: http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2005/s1419734.htm
Broadcast: 21/07/2005
Costello sees the 'real Australia'
Reporter: Hamish Fitzsimmons
TONY JONES, HOST: In June of 2003, the Prime Minister announced he had no intention of retiring any time soon and the leader-in-waiting was openly disappointed. At the time the Treasurer Peter Costello said his colleagues now expected him to start talking about a wide range of issues beyond the economy and so he has been.
His latest odyssey into other portfolios has taken him to northern Queensland where today he held meetings in Cairns with Indigenous leaders from the Cape York Peninsula. Tomorrow he'll venture even further north into tribal communities as part of a tour to hear alternatives to a failing policy which has left Indigenous people with a life expectancy 17 years lower than the rest of the population.
Mr Costello's whistle-stop tour has some of the hallmarks of an election campaign. Yesterday he went whale watching in Hervey Bay and this morning met locals at the Cairns Agricultural Show. He says he's not seeking to broaden his appeal to the electorate but merely trying to see the real Australia for himself.
Lateline's Hamish Fitzsimmons has been travelling with the Treasurer and filed this report from Cairns.
HAMISH FITZSIMMONS, JOURNALIST: From the number of photo opportunities with the Treasurer, one could be forgiven for thinking there's an impending election. Mr Costello says he's visiting far north Queensland to get a feel for local issues.
PETER COSTELLO: Where has this come from?
GENTLEMAN FROM NORTH QUEENSLAND: This has come from out on the reef on the coral reef line fishery. We're an embattled fishery, Treasurer, as you know. We're having a lot of trouble competing with cheap imports from aquaculture in South- East Asia and we really need to strengthen our domestic market.
HAMISH FITZSIMMONS: But the trip is more widely seen as a chance for him to broaden his appeal.
CLOWN: He's supporting me! Definitely, at the moment!
PETER COSTELLO, FEDERAL TREASURER: People can say what they like. I mean for me as Treasurer, I like to see all of Australia and regional Australia is a big part of the national identity. It's a big part of our national economy and you see great characters.
HAMISH FITZSIMMONS: And at the Cairns show he was part of the attractions.
PETER COSTELLO: Congratulations, Blossom. You are the Cairns Show Association's champion dairy cow, Australia.
HAMISH FITZSIMMONS: What do you think of the Treasurer's visit?
MICHAEL DALEY, CAIRNS RESIDENT: I think it's been really, really good. I enjoy being able to talk to politicians. Particularly politicians that are right up in the upper levels of the parties and that. And I think it's really good that he comes down and associates with us people who are on the coalface, basically.
LEENA ENOSA, CAIRNS RESIDENT: Being a Torres Strait Islander, and, well, my mother's an Aboriginal, I think he's doing a great job for us and being part of our side and doing a lot of work in a community where there are a lot of troubles and battling those troubles.
HAMISH FITZSIMMONS: Mr Costello's trip to regional Queensland appears to have gone down well with the locals. But its real focus is a visit to remote Aboriginal communities on Cape York where he'll look at the Government's mutual obligation for welfare policy in action.
PETER COSTELLO: I think for Aboriginal people and for white people, a real job in a real company rather than welfare is a much better opportunity than a process which can actually demoralise you.
HAMISH FITZSIMMONS: There are mixed feelings in the Aboriginal community about the effectiveness of mutual obligation.
VINCE MUNDRABY, MAYOR OF YARRABAH: The mutual obligation needs to be more consultation, especially in regard to the Indigenous communities in Queensland.
HAMISH FITZSIMMONS: But Cape York Indigenous leader Noel Pearson says welfare reform is essential to the future of his people.
NOEL PEARSON, OF CAPE YORK PARTNERSHIPS: Everything we need to do around health, education, rebuilding of families, rebuilding better communities, safer communities, getting on top of violence and a whole of problems that afflict our people, all happens under the umbrella of welfare reform.
HAMISH FITZSIMMONS: Mr Costello will continue his tour of Cape York tomorrow with visits to Aboriginal communities at Coen, Arakun and Weipa.
Lateline
TV PROGRAM TRANSCRIPT
Australian Broadcasting Corporation
LOCATION: http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2005/s1419736.htm
Broadcast: 21/07/2005
Time for honesty in Indigenous programs: Costello
Reporter: Tony Jones
TONY JONES: And earlier this evening I spoke to Peter Costello, just after his meeting with Noel Pearson. He was in cairns.
TONY JONES: Peter Costello, thanks for joining us.
PETER COSTELLO, TREASURER: Thanks very much, Tony.
TONY JONES: Now, in spite of Australia's historically high levels of prosperity, the life expectancy of Indigenous people is 17 years lower than the rest of the population. Is this, in a way, the unfinished business of this Government?
PETER COSTELLO: Well, I think that whatever we've been doing in the past to improve things for the Indigenous population it hasn't been working as well as we would have liked and you can see that on indicators such as life expectancy. You can see it in relation to infant mortality. You can see it in relation to educational standards.
On practically every measurement, Indigenous Australians are a long way behind the rest of the community. And what that means, I think, is we've got to look for new approaches and new ways. We've got to make sure that we learn from mistakes and those taxpayers' dollars which are being spent - and there's been a lot of them - they've got to be used more wisely and it's one of the reasons why I am engaging in my own briefings up here in far north Queensland and going into the communities over the next couple of days.
TONY JONES: Alright, we'll come to some of the potential solutions in a moment, but what you're saying is that, effectively, after a decade in power, is a failure of this Government, is it not?
PETER COSTELLO: I'm not saying that everything is a failure. I think there are some things that were a failure. I think ATSIC was a failure, yes, and it didn't work. I think the idea that all you had to do was spend increasing amounts of money to fix the problem was a failure and that didn't work.
I think some things were actually successful, some of the programs which were broad-banded programs were successful. But after you look back at the results for a very, very large sum of money, which was allocated through ATSIC, yeah, the outcomes were disappointing.
TONY JONES: Look at the life expectancy figure one more time. If, for example, another section of the population - Anglo-Saxon men - were mostly dying under the age of 57, something would have been done about it, wouldn't it?
ALEXANDER DOWNER: Well, obviously we would have looked at the causes and if the diseases were treatable, we would have treated them. I think in relation to Aboriginal health we've got to look at the causes, and it may be unfashionable to say this, but some of the causes include alcohol. And there was a view that you couldn't actually name some of the problems that were causing untimely deaths. But I think that the problem is now so serious we can afford to be honest with each other. We can look at other things, such as family breakdown, which has been a big problem and we ought to be honest enough to talk about that as an issue.
TONY JONES: Alright. Noel Pearson has been absolutely brutally honest with his own people in that regard. What concrete measures do you think might emerge out of the talks that you've had today?
PETER COSTELLO: Well, they're talking about some of the things that can work. Alcohol management programs, for example, can have success. There is no one solution to fix all problems, but they can have success. They're talking about putting the family back at the centre of policy and that's an issue that's been left behind in the debate over Aboriginal issues. All of the focus up until now has been the community, but also the family and responsibilities inside families. They're talking about how welfare, far from solving the problems, might have become the source of a problem.
TONY JONES: Alright. One concrete idea that's been put forward - you've already spoken about it to some degree - is that welfare payments could actually be stopped to families who don't send their children to school. Is that something you'd like to take to Cabinet?
PETER COSTELLO: It's something I'd like to investigate to see whether it works. The problems are now so great we've got to be honest enough to do things that work, even if they don't sound all that politically correct. If that works then it's something that ought to be looked at very carefully, particularly if the communities themselves are saying that they'd like to see these approaches.
You see what's been coming through in the talks that I've been having is that to give money without having useful work and to ask for responsibilities in return actually undermines the structure of families in societies. We wouldn't be surprised actually to hear about this in non-Indigenous Australia. We know in non-Indigenous Australia, some of our big cities where you've got first and second and third generation welfare recipients.
TONY JONES: Can I just cut in there, because I was going to ask you if you do introduce some sort of legislation along those lines it would have to apply to everyone on welfare, wouldn't it? Black, white and brindle?
PETER COSTELLO: This shouldn't come as any great surprise to us. Welfare dependency might be a problem in Aboriginal communities. Because we know that welfare dependency is a problem in non-Indigenous communities. So it shouldn't come as any great surprise to us.
TONY JONES: So any change would go across the board, would it?
PETER COSTELLO: I'm not actually saying these changes will be introduced but I'm saying I've got an open enough mind to examine what some of the leadership is putting forward. I don't think I'd do it if it didn't have the support of the leadership because you've got to have the support of the leadership to make these things work. I've got an open mind. I'm not saying it's going to be done, I'm not saying there's going to be legislation, but I think we're now at a stage where we can be honest and open and that's where I'm at.
TONY JONES: Alright, now let's move on if we can. In June of 2003 after Mr Howard made it clear he had no intention of resigning, you said that your colleagues would now expect you to contribute on a wide range of issues and that you intended to do that in the months to come. Is this part of that?
PETER COSTELLO: Well, I've been engaging in a lot of broader issues which I think are going to be important for the future of our country, issues like the nature of voluntary society, building social capital. I put the ageing of the population and the demographic change and fertility rates and the nature of work squarely in the focus of Government. And where there is an opportunity to engage in these issues, of course, I want to do so.
TONY JONES: The problem is getting back to the previous statement, made in June of 2003, that those months have now stretched into years and is that why you're now effectively referring to your leadership run as a marathon?
PETER COSTELLO: Well, you know, the thing is Tony, I probably get asked that question daily. If not daily, weekly.
TONY JONES: We haven't heard of you being a long distance runner before yesterday, I think.
PETER COSTELLO: Some days probably three or four times. I always deal with them in utter politeness and good humour and batting back these questions over a long period of time does require the patience of a long distance runner.
TONY JONES: Would you agree, though, that in this race you're actually up against the Emile Zatopek of Australian politics?
PETER COSTELLO: I knew you were asking me the question because you had a good zinger coming, Tony and it's the patience of a long distance runner.
TONY JONES: Alright, let's put it this way if I can. The only trophy that the Emile Zatopek of Australian politics, John Howard, doesn't have on his mantlepiece at the moment is the "Sir Robert Menzies Endurance Cup". Surely he's got to be tempted to go for that?
PETER COSTELLO: Not just one zinger, but two and three zingers, Tony. You've been working on them all day and you keep batting the questions up and the patience required to answer them is the patience of a long distance runner.
TONY JONES: I ask the questions though, and they are legitimate questions if you think about it. Donald Rumsfeld is running the Pentagon, he's 73-years-old. Alan Greenspan is running the US Federal Reserve, he's 79-years-old. I think Ronald Reagan was 78 when he left office. If John Howard went for as long as him, he'd still have three elections in him.
PETER COSTELLO: Well, I think Noah lived until he was 979 didn't he, Tony? I'm surprised you didn't put that one in as well.
TONY JONES: I don't suppose the Prime Minister is going to compare himself to Noah, but Ronald Reagan's not out of the question, is he?
PETER COSTELLO: As I say, I think the important thing that people focus on is how we're dealing with problems in Australia. What are we doing about the issues that concern them?
TONY JONES: Alright, let's move onto ground you're probably surer on and that is the industrial relations campaign. What was the point of launching a national industrial relations campaign without releasing the detail?
PETER COSTELLO: Well I think what the Government did is it announced the essence of a policy and the essence of the policy as you know, is to increase flexibility in a way which will lead to higher productivity which will give a renewed impetus to reform in the Australian economy. Now when you come to draft a bill, a bill is a very long piece of legislation probably running I guess to hundreds of pages and it will take some time until we get the bill, which is as I understand it will be later this year.
But there'll be plenty of time to debate this, Tony. You're talking about long distance running before, the gun's hardly started on this debate and it's got quite a way to go. I've been through a few long debates in Australian politics. The longest I've been through is the GST, which was being discussed in the mid-'80s and was introduced in 2000. So this IR debate has a long way to run.
TONY JONES: That's right, it could take a decade or more to get the legislation through, if you have to convince someone like Barnaby Joyce to sign off on it, for example.
PETER COSTELLO: I'd be surprised if it took a decade, but it's going to take some months to get legislation.
Therefore, before the legislation is enacted it's going to take some additional time again.
TONY JONES: Are you going to put part of that time into trying to convince the Queensland state party executive of the Nationals that it's actually a good idea to have a national system of industrial relations, because they're implacably opposed to it at the minute and they're the ones that tell Barnaby Joyce how to vote?
PETER COSTELLO: Well, I would say to the Queensland division of the National Party that it's been a long-held belief, I think of the Queensland National Party, like it has of the Liberal Party, that we need a more flexible industrial relations system. I can certainly remember when I was a lawyer engaged in industrial relations disputes back in the mid to late '80s, the Queensland Nationals - significant figures in the Queensland National Party - used to argue the necessity for reform back then and many of them are still actively involved in the Queensland National Party. So I would be astounded if the Queensland National Party said they would like to keep in place an industrial relations framework which is inflexible, which gives a lot of power to trade unions and which holds Australia's economic performance back. That would astound me. But if they would like any persuasion on the point, of course we're very open to do so. I'd be astounded if they needed persuasion frankly.
TONY JONES: This is what Senator Joyce told us and he's reflecting their opinion to a large degree. He said, "Since Sir Henry Parkes was about, the Federal Government's been trying to take other states' rights and we're not going to just sit back and let that happen."
PETER COSTELLO: Well, this is not a question, I think, of taking state's rights. I think this is a question of conferring new individual rights. The right to actually contract on an individual basis, the right to get a job, the right to have higher wages.
And to actually portray this as some constitutional issue is completely wrong. Look, can I tell you from the outset of Federation there was an industrial relations power conferred on the Commonwealth Parliament. You know why? Because in the 1890s before Federation started it was understood that industrial disputation didn't respect state borders, it can actually cross state borders and that's been going on for a very long period of time and if you can have a better system which can deal with industrial relations disputes and wages and employment and businesses, which don't stop at state borders, they actually trade across state borders you'd be a mug not to go down the line that will give you a better system.
TONY JONES: Briefly, Treasurer, on the Vizard case, the former head of the National Crime Authority says the DPP's advice not to seek a criminal case for insider trading against him was a serious mistake and he's asking you to release the DPP's advice publicly as a matter of transparency. Will you do that?
PETER COSTELLO: I've asked for an explanation from the DPP as to why he decided not to lay criminal charges. The DPP has given me certain advice and asked me not to release it until the case is concluded. That is, until the matter which is currently before the court is concluded. Now once that's concluded, if the DPP is happy for the matters that he's put to me in writing to be released, yes I will release it.
TONY JONES: Alright, finally Peter Costello, we heard a moving call on this program last night from one of Zimbabwe's leading Opposition figures for Australia's help to get an indictment against President Robert Mugabe in the UN Security Council for crimes against humanity. Would you and the Government back that call?
PETER COSTELLO: Yes, I think we would, but this is a matter for the Security Council. We're not on the Security Council but we would lend our voice to members of the Security Council to consider that.
Australia's been at the forefront of arguing for sanctions to try and restore human rights in Zimbabwe. For example, we are supporting the expulsion of Zimbabwe from the IMF [International Monetary Fund]. And we are also making our voice known in other international forums and we would lend our voice if there is a case there to the Security Council doing that.
TONY JONES: It does appear to you then that there could well be a case against Mugabe for crimes against humanity?
PETER COSTELLO: That's the point, you see. If there is a case then the Security Council can refer it and if there is a case, it should be referred. Let's not mince our words about this, the situation in Zimbabwe is awful, it's terrible. The expulsion of people from farms, confiscation of private property, threats of assault and violence, the rigging of elections - it's a pretty serious business. And if there is a case that can be made out, yes it ought to be referred.
TONY JONES: Peter Costello, we will have to leave it there. We thank you very much for taking the time to talk to us tonight.
PETER COSTELLO: It's great to be with you, thanks Tony.
ABC Online
Money not the answer to Indigenous woes: Costello. 22/07/2005. ABC News Online
[This is the print version of story http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200507/s1419875.htm]
Last Update: Friday, July 22, 2005. 9:22am (AEST)
Money not the answer to Indigenous woes: Costello
Federal Treasurer Peter Costello will use his visit to two Aboriginal communities on Cape York today to discuss ways to improve government policy for Indigenous Australians.
Mr Costello has warned against throwing money at the problems, saying welfare dependency can be as debilitating for Indigenous communities as it is for non-Indigenous Australians.
He says he will use today's visits to discuss new approaches so Indigenous communities can enjoy the same education levels, good health and life expectancy as other Australians.
"It may be unfashionable to say this but some of the causes include alcohol," he told the ABC's Lateline program.
"There was a view that you couldn't actually name some of the problems that were causing untimely deaths but I think the problem is now so serious we can afford to be honest with each other."
Mr Costello says he is willing to consider a scheme that would stop welfare payments for Indigenous parents if they did not send their children to school.
Aboriginal leader Noel Pearson raised the idea as one way to improve education levels within Indigenous communities but Community Services Minister Kay Patterson has rejected it.
Mr Costello says if Mr Pearson's plan is supported by other Aboriginal leaders, it is worth considering.
"I'd like to investigate to see whether it works," he said.
"The problems are now so great we've got to be honest enough to do things that work, even if they don't sound all that politically correct.
"If that works, then it's something that ought to be looked at very carefully."
AAP
'Time to consider' pay for school plan
22 July 2005
TREASURER Peter Costello said it is time to consider a plan to cut the welfare payments of parents who fail to send their children to school.
The proposal has been put forward by Aboriginal leader Noel Pearson, a consultant to the Federal Government on welfare, who says it would help promote school attendance in remote communities.
Federal Community Services Minister Kay Patterson has rejected the idea.
But Mr Costello, who is touring parts of regional Queensland this week, says the proposal should be considered as a way of improving school attendance rates for indigenous children.
"That's something I'd like to investigate to see whether it works," he told ABC television's Lateline program.
"The problems are now so great, we've got to be honest enough to do things that work, even if they don't sound all that politically correct.
"If that works, then it's something that ought to be looked at very carefully."
Mr Costello said welfare dependency was a problem in both Aboriginal and non-indigenous communities, and it was time to be open and honest in tackling the issue.
"I'm not actually saying that these changes will be introduced, but I'm saying I've got an open enough mind to examine what some of the leadership is putting forward," he said.
"I'm not saying it's going to be done, I'm not saying there's going to be legislation, but I think we're now at a stage where we can be honest and open."
Mr Costello also conceded that the Government needed to adopt a new approach in improving health and education opportunities for indigenous Australians.
"Well I think that whatever we've been doing in the past to improve things for the indigenous population, it hasn't been working as well as we would have liked," he said.
A report released this week showed that while spending on Aboriginal health had risen slightly in recent years, it was not translating to better services.
"I think the idea that all you had to do was spend increasing amounts of money to fix the problem was a failure, and that didn't work," Mr Costello said.
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